Lineup Discussion

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Re: Lineup Discussion

Post  Genkidesuka on Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:43 pm

Tinker in a dual is like having Nevermore or Zeus in a dual; they're most effective if they level their nukes faster than everyone else. But I suppose it could work.

I meant that if the tower gets pushed (ie creeps are close to their tower, its much much easier to gank you if you're not tower hugging, either by other heroes or a (possible) jungle. Calling miss is not really enough; Someone from another lane could go creep pull or something, would you still towerhug in that case? If they start denying their creeps from half health they can easily keep them there also.

Pit should take priority over Firestorm was what I was getting at. So at level 7 you should have maxxed Pit and have a relatively weak level 3 firestorm that won't do anything but get creeps to deny level. The ranged creep at least can be denied without being in the firestorm; not sure about melee as I haven't really played pit much, and don't know the exact AoE of firestorm (nor do I know the mana cost, ie how spammable it is).

Why is Void not a competitive pick? I mean, sure, TB is better than him currently, but why does that mean he can't be used?

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Re: Lineup Discussion

Post  Stankey on Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:21 am

void just screams pub at me. Why you ditching pit so much if you havent used him? Whats the point of having a maxed pit if you cant do any damage while they are in it? I would much rather have lvl 4 fire storm.
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Re: Lineup Discussion

Post  DR on Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:29 am

You'll want level 4 pit, because you'll expect to go gank or have someone come gank.
Firestorms AoE is 300 around a point (so it can reach 600 in a line). So you'll be casting it so it just touches the melee creeps and then reaches back which makes things annoying for enemy ranged heroes. They can work their way around it, but not as easy.

Void is like tb in that he has to farm to be any good. But he can't jungle. On the other hand he has a great escape mechanism and chronosphere. Put him in a lane with a ranged baby sitter (example warlock). So long as your team is mostly range based void is a good addition. I definitely wouldn't say he is a pub hero, but you do need to make a team around his chronosphere.

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Re: Lineup Discussion

Post  Genkidesuka on Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:58 am

Stankey wrote:Why you ditching pit so much if you havent used him? Whats the point of having a maxed pit if you cant do any damage while they are in it? I would much rather have lvl 4 fire storm.

Because Pit Lord is, and never will be, a solo hero. He does not solo gank. Same idea with Treant; His ulti is not so you can unleash hell on them, its so your TEAM can.

Sure, Void can be in a team based around unleashing during Chrono, but he's also a very good counter to other carries. He can also jungle fine once he gets MoM. But yes, he needs to be babysat by Warlock/Necrolyte/Shadow Priest/Viper/Jakiro/etc.

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Re: Lineup Discussion

Post  Stankey on Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:48 pm

Because Pit Lord is, and never will be, a solo hero. He does not solo gank. Same idea with Treant; His ulti is not so you can unleash hell on them, its so your TEAM can.

But you were just ditching pit in general not as a solo. Yeah i know that your team does. You make some really random irrelevant points in an emphatic fashion, like we didnt know them or something lol.
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Re: Lineup Discussion

Post  DR on Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:43 pm

I'm sure all of us do that... I know I do O_o

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Re: Lineup Discussion

Post  DEATH.TO.ALL on Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:54 pm

Hes just a big phallace for rejecting pitlord.

Pitlord is like treant EXCEPT he has the ability to kill heroes easily with his spells. He must not be underestimated especially in the hands of bjchance or mcbastard.

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Re: Lineup Discussion

Post  Stankey on Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:24 am

Yeah i saw alex play pit lord and he got curiass as first main item, i was like wtf? Then i clicked and was like, omg thats genius. It really owns, he can pump out some mean damage with curiass, and a battlefury helps too. Then a skadi just for pure insulting ownage. Yeah i saw alexs build, he ripped up, i tried it out later, ripped up aswel. Curiass is a winner. Havent played with alex in a while, or his bro now that i think about it.
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Re: Lineup Discussion

Post  DEATH.TO.ALL on Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:20 am

alex and his brother bought an xbox 360 and their parents are back from overseas for a while.

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Re: Lineup Discussion

Post  DR on Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:07 am

Er.... I think I'm pretty sure the armour plays a BIG part.

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Re: Lineup Discussion

Post  Genkidesuka on Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:13 pm

You obviously don't get it. I meant sure, Pit itself doesn't do any damage, but thats why you gank as a team. You don't ever gank by yourself; Firestorm doesn't help that anyway. It seems like a lot of damage on paper (i'm sure I've said this already), but really, 50 reduced damage/wave is awful.

Kill heroes easily with his spells? You've got to be kidding me. Treant is far better than Pit Lord because he does what he's meant to do, BETTER. There is no advantage to picking Pit Lord to gank/carry over most other heroes that just do it better than him. He's almost like a Druid was in 60 WoW - Supposed to be Jack of all trades, master of none, but really he's below average at almost everything except heals, and even that wasn't amazing.

Have you ever picked Pit Lord in a scrim? Have you ever seen Pit Lord (constantly) picked by absolute pros? (not dissing mcbastard and bjchance or anything, I know they're good, but they're not quite MYM material yet Smile) Because thats all that really matters; Since when does a lineup matter in a pub? I've seen the worst lineup possible (5 carries for example) consistantly win in pubs, that doesn't make it effective.

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Re: Lineup Discussion

Post  DR on Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:13 pm

Ahahahaha

Pitlord is now a competitive pick Smile.

But not as a carry...

As support of course Razz particular excellent anti push.

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Re: Lineup Discussion

Post  Stankey on Sat Oct 04, 2008 10:14 am

Win for us lol. Pitlord pwns.

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Re: Lineup Discussion

Post  DR on Sat Oct 04, 2008 12:34 pm

I've read up on some of the leaked 6.55 beta stuff though... looks to be pretty crazy O_o

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Re: Lineup Discussion

Post  Genkidesuka on Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:02 pm

Pitlord is a competitive pick because of the buffs he received... and also because of the orientation of the game. He is THE anti push now. As can be seen in the recent MYM vs Mouz game. MYM had the better late game but Mouz were winning by a margin of more than 20 kills at one point... but PL single handedly stopped any and all pushes and turtled the game.

God I hate this version. Mouz deserved to win that.

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Re: Lineup Discussion

Post  DR on Sun Oct 05, 2008 12:00 am

Ahahahaha, it just takes a post about strategy for you to come out genki Smile, got into a league yet?

Anyway, Mouz did one or two mistakes that cost them the game. At the point they were sieging the scourge base, not when fighting, just waiting for that opportunity to push in, they were too eager to finish. Now I know the idea is to finish it before luna farms up, but during that period luna couldn't farm... at all. So they really should have kept the pressure on by just camping scourge jungle with ward (can't remember if during that point they had the wards at the scourge jungle) for info. Scourge still can't go out, because if they do they'll lose the fight as Mouz would have the drop on them, and since luna, etc. effectively isn't farming or lvling (that 1 gold per sec doesn't count) they'd have won/ had better chances of winning instead of almost suiciding the mid.

Also your view on the... manta on potm kurosky went for?

I wouldn't say Mouz deserved to win, because they made some mistakes.
But even so I do totally agree that having to mass farm this version sucks and it was biased towards MYM. Mouz knew the risks though when they didn't pick a hard carry.

And yeah, I think the 4 months ago when we were discussing pit it was 6.48b? I can't remember...

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Re: Lineup Discussion

Post  Genkidesuka on Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:19 am

I've got this forum being watched, you see. I get e-mailed about it Smile

Nope, still haven't found a league yet. I applied to get vouched for DXDin but nobody even looked at my replay much less supported me...

I just got a BA account so I might start playing the league inside that. Not sure what the lag is like over there though.

Maybe Mouz made a few mistakes, but those few mistakes shouldn't have cost them the game considering that they were doing everything else extremely well.

As for Manta PotM, I think Manta rocks on everyone! But specifically that game, MYM had an awful lot of anti push so the images would die fairly quickly to AoE. Maybe the diffusal came in handy for easier ganks and he decided to upgrade it after the charges were gone... IDK, I didn't actually watch the replay. I don't watch any of them nowadays, and will continue not to until the stable map version is updated.

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Re: Lineup Discussion

Post  DR on Sun Oct 05, 2008 1:50 pm

Fair enough, although I'd say kuroskys build certainly didn't help towards the round Razz.

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Re: Lineup Discussion

Post  Stankey on Sun Oct 05, 2008 4:35 pm

Found out my old mate from school used to play in the pro warcraft leagues. He was MYM]BeRa or something. But he was pro as, used 2 play for korea (from nz somehow) and played grubby and moon and shit. He got paid $60k a year aswel lol. Just to play fukin warcraft.

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Re: Lineup Discussion

Post  PIB on Sun Oct 05, 2008 7:16 pm

would explain the 15k budget harry was on to buy his food for him each break
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Re: Lineup Discussion

Post  Stankey on Sun Oct 05, 2008 7:24 pm

haha yeah thats rite. The warcraft dude (Jin) paid our mate $1 EVERY morning tea and lunchtime to go buy his food. Still $10 a week lol. Or 2 sausage rolls a day, ur choice lol.

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Re: Lineup Discussion

Post  DR on Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:43 pm

Simply... WOW O_o

Maybe some of his ladder rubbed off on you? Smile

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Re: Lineup Discussion

Post  Genkidesuka on Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:46 pm

How did ladder get in here? =/

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Re: Lineup Discussion

Post  DR on Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:39 am

*banish ladder* Razz

Interestingly enough while Mouz lost that game to MYM, they did a better game against pandemic and won (guess they learned from that game real quick). Line ups were

Mouz
VS, Sven, Puck, Chen, Zeus

Tpd
Pitlord, Luna, Warlock. Lion, Tree

They didn't have the whole (if we don't push soon we'll lose ) problem and Vs was very good at setting of fights. Mouz might have outplayed and possibly outpicked them a little... But the fact is turtling totally failed for Tpd Razz.

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Re: Lineup Discussion

Post  PIB on Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:00 pm

love it how zues is in those line ups... good to see
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