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creep stats

Post  aam.consice on Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:38 pm

Hi first time posting, I think Smile
I always find it easy this way to calculate if the creep stats are good or not.
If u are soloing a lane you should be aiming for 3.5x minutes passed creep kills.
If u are laning with another person, you should be aiming for 2x minutes passed creep kills.
I find denying quite unsignificant since no one ever denies much during middle to late stage of the game, so i mostly focus on getting the kills.

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Re: creep stats

Post  Genkidesuka on Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:49 pm

Seems about right. 35 after 10 mins is not unreasonable and should be attainable by almost all solo heroes - should be exceeded even with, say, SF/QoP/Necrolyte/etc. However past about the 15 minute mark you should be aiming for a greater rate than 3.5 every minute - usually every creep in the wave, or missing one is occasionally acceptable.

Common mistake pubs that can last hit/deny make is that they focus a lot more on denies than creep kills. I don't know about you but I would prefer a level 16 carry with 10k in items to a level 18 carry with 7k in items.

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Re: creep stats

Post  DR on Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:02 pm

Lol, hi consice, first time ive seen you post at least O_o.

Those numbers could apply for the whole game btw, but subject to all kind of things. Denies only matter in the first 10 minutes (15 at the most) imo.

I tend to count each neutral kill as a "cs" as well since it kind of averages out unless you kill ancients often, that kind of makes me wish they had a separate counter but mleh.

If you are your teams hard carry, you'd want to have over 4x per minute
Semi carry, 2.5-3
support 1.5-2.5
Map control technician 0.75-1.25 XD

O, genki beat me to second post Razz

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Re: creep stats

Post  Stankey on Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:05 pm

Genkidesuka wrote: I would prefer a level 16 carry with 10k in items to a level 18 carry with 7k in items.

That that fails at making sense. If u deny, they dont get the experience or the gold, so their level isnt going to go down and money going to go up.

If your meaning you would rather fuck the denies and leave them to freely get all the gold from your creeps while you have to fight them for their creeps, then thats just dumb in my opinion. Thats why i rape pubs who dont deny. They get less gold and less exp cus i deny some, and i get all the exp and most of the gold cus they dont deny. Its easy enough, i mean not that often do 2 creeps die at the same time, so u have to choose. In which case 2bh i would go for the deny rather then the kill early on in the game. Actually i guess it depends on your and their heroes (if they have a lvl dependent hero, or if yours is a carry that needs gold.

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Re: creep stats

Post  DR on Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:42 pm

Actually... sometimes you can just go for a gold deny... you can't stop them getting the xp (due to certain circumstances of last hitting), but you can make sure they don't get the gold Very Happy

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Re: creep stats

Post  Stankey on Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:05 pm

they get less exp yes, well done d_r

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Re: creep stats

Post  PIB on Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:01 am

DR wrote:
Map control technician 0.75-1.25 XD

HUH??? like an anti enemy pusher?
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Re: creep stats

Post  DR on Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:56 am

they get less exp yes, well done d_r

No stank... you misunderstand me.

In a lane there are three ways one of your creeps can die. One is killed by scourge (no gold full xp), one by you (a deny, less xp no gold) one by enemy hero (they get gold and full xp).
Say you are against an sf with not full necromastery, he has more damage than you, and at that particular point you can't out last him coz his timing is good, so instead of aiming for the last hit on your creep you just hit it and time it so scourge gets the kill. While he doesn't get less xp, he doesn't get another soul nor does he get gold.

And PIB, the map control thingy just means they just ward the whole game and end up with like less than 1k - 1.5k worth of items. O_o
I think in a serious game someone put up 52 wards? Although i haven't seen the repaly another one I saw was 42.

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Re: creep stats

Post  Stankey on Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:46 am

Thats rediculous aye lol. Yes dr i know rofl, that pisses me off when they do more dmg than you so they can take kill before you can. So irritating, what i like to do is attack him so the creeps move and stop targeting the one they are, or pull them away from his tower, or closer to yours, whatever.

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Re: creep stats

Post  Genkidesuka on Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:47 am

If you're our carry and denying when you should be last hitting, or even close to last hitting, you're doing something wrong. I don't care if their carry is of a higher level than you, if you've got a significant amount more gold than him we're probably going to win.

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Re: creep stats

Post  DR on Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:01 pm

Thankfully this version is going to help change/reduce the "lets farm as much as possible" crap Razz.

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Re: creep stats

Post  Stankey on Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:16 pm

whys that? i didnt read whole changelog.

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Re: creep stats

Post  Genkidesuka on Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:35 pm

Nerf on map control, nerf on some of the carries, greater incentive to push (as well as it being easier, with team fights at towers encouraged from the get go), greater incentive to gank, blink got buffed back to usefulness.

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