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Re: Lineups

Post  DR on Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:00 pm

O_o wth?

If by carry you mean dps, then lina isn't going to out dps naix in practical purposes.

Bkb won't stop damage, its chaos physical attack from the ghosts.

Btw what uni voo?

Storm out carries qop. The damage from his ult is really neglible, but the main reason qop can carry is her mobility. By mid game storms mobility is alot stronger than qops.

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Re: Lineups

Post  Stankey on Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:07 pm

hes joking bout lina lol.

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Re: Lineups

Post  DR on Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:15 pm

Well there is an alternative definition of carry, it isn't as dpser but just as person who kills lots of stuff (roughly, I never quite got the definition), so it is quite possible for a lina to fit that O_o.

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Re: Lineups

Post  Deja.Voo on Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:12 am

Auckland DR
And the thing about that lina was she had the highest farm in the game they had a lina naix lane and lina went necrobook aghs i think but anyways wasn't really carry as a traditional sense but she had amazing items for a lina esp one that laned with naix and of course being lina had a fair few kills. Was puppey playing it and hes normally one for wierd items etc. Point i think i was trying to make was that naix isn't picked now for his amazing pick=win hes more of a nice argessive pick early that does well as a semi carry mid game. Yes he can still be used as a carry I want to make that clear so people don't get hte wrong idea just that the meta game has changed a lot recently and so has his role in lineups because you don't need a hard carry anymore which means that having more semicarrys and things like sandking/double nuke heroes have become rather common in lineups.
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Re: Lineups

Post  Stankey on Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:47 am

yeah, do you think that not needing a carry translates to our level? Because were seeing a lot of lineups like sk/potm zues cm/axe and stuff like that, with no real hard carry.

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Re: Lineups

Post  DR on Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:08 pm

Competitive dota has its roots in roots in pubs, we are past midway towards competitve?

Yeah about that lina game I thought it was weird puppey decided to farm so much but meh. I tend to draw distinctions between a farmer and a carry.

So a no hard carry line up is viable, but really its more down to can we play it or not. Which also brings up a point, doing something just because pros do it isn't a good reason.

Ideally our goal is to be playing at pro level (tbh no reason why we shouldn't be playing at that level), in which case when you are the top, you can't copy others, you have to come up with your own ideas, or make your decisions based on your understanding of the game.

Which means if you don't want to have a hard carry that game, don't!

O and zomgd, so 4 shamans alll go UoA? XD meet? ^^" What programme you doing btw.

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Re: Lineups

Post  Stankey on Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:56 pm

DR wrote:Which also brings up a point, doing something just because pros do it isn't a good reason.

/agree]

I think all 4 of u shud find eachother, take a group pick and post it so we can lol at your "comradery"

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Re: Lineups

Post  Deja.Voo on Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:48 am

Yea cause that won't be FUCKING WIERD
Me and Cameron and the two asian dudes standing there like wtf...
Could work though. Doing shit because pros do it isn't a really good reason too but the idea behind that is that those people have a really good grasp of the game strategically so therefore you can kinda agree that if you can understand why they made the choices they did then you can impliment that into your own play. But I do believe that the meta game has developed to a point where carries are now optional and i see no reason why we can't get away without playing a hard carry. Not to say that we shouldn't when the opportunity arises however. E.g tonight we played a game with a lineup of qop potm AXE chen sk and we did fine their team was a global tinker/zues/furion/warlock/spec which i think has been done to death and suffers from a terrible lack of teamfight but hey thats just me. Anyways back to my main point being that pros do whatever the fuck they want and its up to us to look at it and go so why the fuck did that work and if we want we can try to emulate their sucess. I'm a rather firm believer in that progamers have a great grasp of the meta game and are a good way of seeing what works and what doesn't and with the exception of troll/spec lane which they for some reason havn't caught onto most of our ideas on how to play teh game stem from those games. I've forgotten on the whole point behind this post becuase its 1am and i have to wake up for lectures tomorrow and i'm fucking tired so to end on three points.

1, Bachelor of Science Majoring in Psychology
2, <3 Cameron's AXE with its 100% win rate in scrims.
3, WATCH WATCHMEN
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Re: Lineups

Post  Stankey on Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:53 pm

yeah i liked that lineup, im gna start picking shit like that more often. Also i saw a hero stats thing, on like how often heroes get picked/banned and the win/loss % with each hero, and most were 50% some were 60% if you were lucky but chen stood out at a 80% win rate, that will have to do with generally more skilled clans picking chen, and chen is devestating when played very well.

I do think its important when your going these gank strats is that you have a couple of decent semi carries, in this game qop solo and potm (ss playing who farms like a mofo) did this for us Razz. ss had like 10x better farm then spec, but that cud be because he was in a sk/potm vs zues lane, and spec was vs a solo axe with chen ganks (and died fb)

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Re: Lineups

Post  Deja.Voo on Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:42 pm

Was that list on the mymym page for one of their leagues cause i know they used to have a board up like that. Spec isn't that great anymore IMO and yea good amount of semi carry is nice which I believe is why potm has been first pick in a few games and even banned a bit recently just because the pool of stuns and nuke-y heroes is a fair bit bigger than decent semicarrys which is most often than not potm or qop. Its a lot more fun to play i feel as well. From my perspective that game didn't go to bad for me didn't die to tinker which wasn't fun to lane against incidentally I was pretty focused on surviving than farm and I really like necrobook I think we should be trying to get one every game cause its just an awesome all round item. I know I'm going to get people disagreeing with me but on things like qop and puck even, I prefer it over guinsoos or w/e which I'm starting to shine away from because of how the meta game is right now.
And Stankey why arn't you on msn...


Last edited by Deja.Voo on Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:01 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Lineups

Post  Stankey on Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:50 pm

Yeah i got linked to it from the aus-dota.tk site but i think it was on mym yes.

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Re: Lineups

Post  Stankey on Sun Mar 15, 2009 2:39 pm

http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/replays/17810

Lol mouz was reading our forums. Cus u know, i didnt copy it off anyone in the first place Razz But yeah they used basically the lineup we were thinking of using. Cept they put zues mid and we werent sure who 2 have their b/w zues/tinker/qop etc

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Re: Lineups

Post  Deja.Voo on Sun Mar 15, 2009 4:19 pm

I wanna use Panda more. I've got this lineup I wanna try but I'll keep it to myself for the time being. Its kind of a evolved version of a midgame push strat. So I'm not sure how well it'll work considering our history with push strats. Also I think how we're going on about storm I've seen him in a few games and he does do pretty well. However something else I've noticed is that undying is pretty much perma banned right now.
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Re: Lineups

Post  Stankey on Sun Mar 15, 2009 4:57 pm

well i think people are just worried. But some games he will go unbanned or unpicked. Im also noticing no brood ban/pick a fair bit, is he an essential ban if your unsure about if the team ur playing can brood or not? Like the clans we know that dont brood much, do we just not ban him? I mean dpro is picked a fair bit now, and shes a great brood counter (once she has the regen to spam swarm).

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Re: Lineups

Post  Deja.Voo on Sun Mar 15, 2009 5:34 pm

I think broods sorta like naix and spec in that they arn't so much pick = win anymore esp when krob is such a common pick like you said. Also axe works well.
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Re: Lineups

Post  Stankey on Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:09 pm

yeah its good, im liking this version a lot better. Cus there is less "pick the heroes that you have to pick cus they are strong" and more "pick your 1 or 2 top tiers" and then you get to be more flexible with your last 3/4 heroes. Its opened up your choosing options a lot more.

Also im wondering if we should start banning puck sometimes. I never used to but he gets fp alot now.

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Re: Lineups

Post  DR on Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:28 pm

Maybe we should have a doa strategy only forum? Coz I'm sure we have some ideas we'd like to keep secret Smile (dejas case, or he just wants it all in his head ^^").

By panda you mean drunk panda? Also it was pretty damn obvious that storm is ridiculously strong Very Happy, sif need replays for that ^^".

About banning puck/ brood, it should come down to a) are you picking them and if so is it as an fp? b) if your team can handle playing against them?

I haven't even played dirge, but from what I see its basically his two nukes that are huge causes of "LIES!", in fact Decay is total bs >.>

Also when are we going to get a damned pro wind runner?

And finally, can we do the old VP new ksint "defend towers to the death" style? (not really a strat, its more like part of a strat). You might have seen the article (it is oooold), but basically talks about how towers allow alot of ganking mobility without bots + severely reduces the amount of area an enemy can gank in.

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Re: Lineups

Post  Deja.Voo on Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:19 pm

Yea I pretty much agree with the new tp scrolls losing towers early is pretty crippling in terms of mobility. So def agree with dr on the whole die just to let the tower live so you can maintain a fair amount of mapcontrol.

But yes I think some super secret doa strategy forum where we can make mega super awesome secret special amazing yet also quite obscure strats and keep them all within a super secret super mega amazing awesome society. Storm is good not too sure how amazingly good seeing as he isn't fp'd often and he isn't really banned an aweful lot. I think its more the new that makes him good people still havn't really decided what the best way to counter him is but yea he is good.

Undying is just incredibly tank and really fucking annoying. His steal str things gives him massive amount of life his rip has a 10second cooldown now and that slow is apain along with the heal he gets everytime thing dies within 10000000000 range of him. But yea thats just me ^^ and yes DR I meant panda not storm.

AND MY WINDRUNNER IS PRO LA hes pretty cool at towering played some game and went 8-2 tower stats.
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Re: Lineups

Post  Stankey on Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:22 pm

digs was meant to be our pro windrunner, cus he loved him lots. I liked that game kuroky played him solo mid vs tinker, and just kept shackling him by targeting the creep in front of him (rather then using trees). But he still needed chen to follow up, to actually win the lane. So yeh, probly wudnt pick him without a jungler/roamer.

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