Heroes in CM - Silencer

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Heroes in CM - Silencer

Post  Crypt on Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:05 pm

Hey was just thinking like, in the CMs I've played with you guys, we're usually always picking the same heroes and banning the same. Well as far as banning goes fair enough, but maybe we should give some unconventional heroes a go e.g. Silencer along with a stable 2-3 conventional picks.

Imo once hes got around +50 dmg on his glaives (should be achieveable with necros np), he can start ganking heavily. Once hes lvl 6 hes actually very difficult to gank, since you can global and then just tp away (or global then teammates tp to come help you). He's also got decent laning ability with glaive harrass and a few nulls can basically let him harrass the low hp heroes pretty well.

Another wierd thing I had in mind on him is to get BKB on silencer Very Happy
Basically run in, global silence, do as much dmg as you can, and when global runs out, BKB run in close to them, as soon as they cast a spell thats more silence from last word. Also BKB forces them to try outdps you which is pretty difficult unless they have a farmed carry. I realise that BKB doesnt really synergise with him but, imo linkens is too expensive for what it does, since I reckon Silencer should be played like a hard ganker. (Also linkens doesnt help against AoE stuff like tides ulti? not 100% sure on that)

I also think if we do use Silencer we should probably try force our enemy into team fights by all 5 pushing mid etc. that way we can make the most out of his global and last word.

Only thing I dont really know is where he would lane. I would say mid solo if they didnt have a zeus/tinker or any other lane that would hinder his farming too much.

What are your thoughts?

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Re: Heroes in CM - Silencer

Post  Stankey on Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:24 pm

I just dont see how he can effectively gank. Also you cant really global silence and tp if your stunned, which in most cases is what happens in a gank.

We can always give it a try. We used to use him.

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Re: Heroes in CM - Silencer

Post  Crypt on Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:30 pm

Mmm well what I meant by that is, hopefully you'll notice the gank coming (LOL THIS CANT BE ME HAHAH, get deja or someone to play silencer lolz) and be cautious and stay close to trees/tower. Tbh you should really be able to global as soon as you see them since for most heroes bar potm/pudge etc. your vision range should be longer than their stun range, so as soon as you see it coming, ulti tp away/get help.

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Re: Heroes in CM - Silencer

Post  Deja.Voo on Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:52 pm

In theory it works and I like that you're thinking about different picks cause thats pretty much what I do most of the time. Standard crap is standard crap and while some people like to stick to it I prefer to have at least 1-2 picks that aren't too conventional. I see it as a nice addition because 1, it can displace the other team if its something they aren't used to playing against or 2, if you lose you can simply claim that you were messing around with picks ^^

We do sometimes take unconventional picks although recently not so much. My favourite lineup a while ago for example was: CM/SK Krob and Warlock/Void but recently with SK becoming a top pick its hard to get most of that lineup.

Silencer himself is a bit too situational a pick. He demands solo and you don't get an awful lot out of him I mean straight DPS wise I would prefer OD and then why have that when you could have tinker or krob. He gets ganked a bit too easily and with the mechanics behind last word it means you can still be disable locked to death.

So yea that is pretty much why you don't take Silencer. Unless they have some stupid 5 aoe ulti team in which case its probably viable.
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Re: Heroes in CM - Silencer

Post  Stankey on Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:13 pm

like s2d Smile. But then gank strat still worked.

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Re: Heroes in CM - Silencer

Post  Deja.Voo on Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:23 pm

Yes, but s2d was bad.
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Re: Heroes in CM - Silencer

Post  Stankey on Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:25 pm

"were". First paragraphs, now grammar, jeese. anyhow, yeh. I think gank can still be > teamfight. Its hard to win any game when 4/5 of your team have negative scores.

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Re: Heroes in CM - Silencer

Post  ssiterl on Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:51 pm

well i use to beg silencer for fun but that was just jking around
umm
reason is why we dont pick him is that...
he needs solo, but hes not the best one to solo..
hes global silence is amazing but thing is he needs to FARM LIKE HELL
basically u cant run when dey come for gank, unless ur map awareness is super amazing and even though u use ulti and have made escape, its cd is way too long to use it again.
as deja said i would prefer OD for damage as silencer needs lots of money to do some damage and shit
But yea we can still pick him against aoe lane ups

what i really want to try is trilane!!!!

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Re: Heroes in CM - Silencer

Post  Deja.Voo on Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:53 pm

I've suggested it quite a few times but I think Stankey is morally opposed to the idea. I've draft trilanes with various success. With current meta game I'd focus more around roaming which again we seem to be morally opposed to.
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Re: Heroes in CM - Silencer

Post  Stankey on Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:29 pm

o think we just need to try them out first in inhouses or in games vs lesser clans. Once we get good enough at usual shit, we can try new shit.

Like when cota warred us for ages, they knew they could beat us with normal shit, so they just kept trying new shit. Ive sed shit a lot. Anyhow you get the point. Trilane would be fun and a nice suprise, and roaming is just, well not something im used to or know how to do very well. If someone wants to do it then ask me in game.

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Re: Heroes in CM - Silencer

Post  Deja.Voo on Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:36 pm

ROAM POTM!!

http://www.dota-allstars.com/replay/97318/index.html

Thats it and I'm not proper roam I forgot I'm laned with Naix for most of it although I've had some success with roam potm you just need the right lanes for it. And i need to be in the right mindset.
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Re: Heroes in CM - Silencer

Post  Stankey on Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:13 pm

i know youve played a roam potm once, but as of yet thats it? I think after u did that you asked if u cud roam in some other game we had (think was a ih) and i think you did, to some extent.

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Re: Heroes in CM - Silencer

Post  DR on Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:48 pm

As said, silencer needs too much farm.

Silencer also doesn't need a solo, he needs a lane where the opponents aren't offensive/strong, which allows him to farm. Silencer does seem to work devastatingly well with sand king and meepo (but meepo no more, too much nerf >.>).

He should (well as an option) get blink dagger so he can save his ult for when its needed offensively, + dagger lets him get in a good few extra hits for the kill.

I don't really draw much of a distinction between a trilane and a normal team with a roamer. The advantage of a trilane is your solos rapid level + you have strong offense in that particular lane. Unless your opponents are fools they'll rapidly be alot more defensive, in which case you might as well send one of your trilaners ganking. Which basically ends up a roamer.

Also there isn't anything wrong with a (insert two popular heroes here but I won't mention cause this is the public forum Very Happy) dual roaming given you have sufficient solo power.

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Re: Heroes in CM - Silencer

Post  Genkidesuka on Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:00 pm

Blink dagger is pretty meh. My preference is a quick Necro3 or else just Soo's rush is fine. Best lane partners for him are ES (self explanitory, he hurts a fuckload but he can't chase very well, ES block helps that), and Ogre (stun/slow).

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Re: Heroes in CM - Silencer

Post  DR on Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:09 pm

Blink dagger is meh, but if you don't get it against a gank crazy team, you're asking to feed, basically comes down to how you and your teammates play though... I don't like necro3 very much (personal prefernce), although I might get it on him or other heroes, guinsoo first choice, if you're not solo there are other options like mekansm.

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Re: Heroes in CM - Silencer

Post  Stankey on Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:29 pm

btw when would u guys get last word on him? Im assuming glaive stats early, ulti when you can. (none in curse) and maybe get last word when teamfights start hapening?

I like blink on him aswel.

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Re: Heroes in CM - Silencer

Post  ssiterl on Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:56 pm

its hex or orchid
i will go orchid b4 hex depending on opposite team
and dagger idk, it surely helps but waste of 2150 on silencer i guess
need more dmg
and as DR mentioned, silencer may feed
so its risky pick
gotta farm in smart ways rather than wasting 2150golds!
but mehhh, thats just my thoughts,

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Re: Heroes in CM - Silencer

Post  DR on Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:01 pm

You get last word if you are against any 0 cast point heroes (tiny, sand king), otherwise it depends on how good the team your facing is, but defintely not until got 4 lvls of stats.

Blink is an item you get if you can get the early farm in for it. If you can't then you fall back on whatever you can. Blah, situational choose! XD

Blink lets you attack as well ss? XD and in some cases the only way you'd manage to get the farm in is if you manage a full team gank to clear the lane >.> , but mainly depends on the game overall (teammates gank much,enemy gank much ,etc).

Which also brings to point I was considering going dagger on lock as a personal preference, this should be a subtle hint not to make me play lock >.>. It works devastatingly well with puck though Very Happy.

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Re: Heroes in CM - Silencer

Post  Stankey on Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:38 pm

lol puck is a bit different to lock tho. :S yeah, you have played lock for us before, maybe just not anymore Razz

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Re: Heroes in CM - Silencer

Post  ssiterl on Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:58 pm

You are into blink so much lol just on every hero!
umm thing is that silencer is what u last pick anyway
if they have amazing ganking team, no way picking silencer at first place
So if u think silencer couldnt have chance of farming, dnt pick at all!!
prob reason y ppl dnt pick silencer these days coz ppl are roaming and shit

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Re: Heroes in CM - Silencer

Post  Crypt on Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:17 am

Wow I look away for like a few hours and come back any so many replies I cant keep up o.O

Mm as to what Deja said before about unconventional picks, I think this SK. Loda interview is mainly what inspired me to break away from the conventional crap:
Interview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDWDgAo4cd0

PROOF:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGRQbYLlrjk

I highly suggest you all go listen to it, because even though they lost, I think its important to point out they know WHY they lost (although "bad day" excuse is pretty poor from a top tier team like them :/ )

Also all you guys are talking about using him to rice hard and carry the team. My original idea for him wasn't for him to carry but to just help team fights with his silence and decently dps with Necro Book 3. Imo Necrobook is pretty easy to farm so doesnt demand a solo lane. Imo the fact you can animation cancel and avoid last word is pretty fuckin lame, and ice frog needs to do something about that (although probably nerf silence time since 4 secs is pretty imba if you can't cancel it).

But good discussion going on here, thats what forums are all about Very Happy

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Re: Heroes in CM - Silencer

Post  Deja.Voo on Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:30 am

Loda is pretty cool guy and all but while going unconventional is interesting and leads to some better games you do have to be a bit careful and find situations where your picks will work and not just take them because you're feeling like it. I think this sorta comes with some drafting experience that sometimes things dont' play out as well as you had hoped for. Playing safe stuff that you know will work with maybe one different pick to spice things up is nice. Picking different for the sake of picking different doesn't work you have to have some idea behind what you're doing is kinda what I'm getting at.
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Re: Heroes in CM - Silencer

Post  DR on Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:19 am

You are into blink so much lol just on every hero!

Of course, it lets you rambo with just about any hero, if you can't rambo the games BORING.

Necro 3 takes 5.3k, hence the whole he needs farm thing. Early on he is basically food for a gank which why it depends on your teammates.

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Re: Heroes in CM - Silencer

Post  Crypt on Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:29 am

DR wrote:
You are into blink so much lol just on every hero!
Necro 3 takes 5.3k, hence the whole he needs farm thing. Early on he is basically food for a gank which why it depends on your teammates.

Yeah but the pieces are somewhat easy to farm and you can start ganking with lvl 1 necros w/e since it still gives a decent +int bonus. Stankey has been talking about the teamwork thing, and I agree with him, we should all have tps like 95% of the time and work on turning ganks around against them (regardless of whether or not we have a fragile carry hero that needs supporting)

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Re: Heroes in CM - Silencer

Post  ssiterl on Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:01 am

btw talking of team SK, reminded me how sandking pick is often now
but how come we never use skel king? which i think is amazing

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