Metagame as it is now... and a strat I am thinking of...

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Metagame as it is now... and a strat I am thinking of...

Post  Crypt on Thu May 14, 2009 2:13 pm

*Disclaimer* HUGE WALL OF TEXT IN ESSAY FORMAT AHEAD. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

Ok I know we arent playing much, but I think its important for us to stay up-to-date with the metagame today, so when we start warring again, we wont be like "wtf rhasta fp over cm/sk/es/puck etc. etc."

Ive watched quite a few replays over the past few days to update myself on the metagame and it seems that picking has changed a little (or should I say a lot?) Anyways, heroes like sk/cm etc. is still up there for some teams but as I said before, rhasta is a new contender and I'm seeing quite a few rhasta fp/bans lately, which I assume is due to his awesome ganking + push ability etc. However, ES and puck seem to have dropped quite a bit, often being picked 3rd/4th/5th Im also seeing Ks int use tiny a few times (due to dendis tiny fetish) and just generally any hero is applicable with a few exceptions.

As for metagame itself, I honestly think there ARE NO RULES NOW (I will justify why I think this in a few moments). In 6.48, it was more like, 15 hero pool, and you pick the same heroes every single game.
And then in 6.52 we saw the era of the ricers, which is basically self explanatory.
And today in 6.59+ I honestly believe you can go whichever strat you like with very little limit to hero pool. Im seeing teams like the newly formed/ex-7L, Ks.Cn who are playing ultra-aggressive/gank with SK/Bane/potm and CM/ES roam (although I dont agree with CM roam but w/e) ranging to teams like Fnatic.MSI use a hardcore lategamer strats with Puck/Rhasta/Lycan/Skele King/Treant (and Fnatic are known to pull off their amazing gamebreaking wins at 60+ mins, surprise, surprise). Most teams tend to be somewhere in between these two with 1-2 midgame carries and some aggressive/push/gankers. Also we're seeing lots of push strats work very well, the model one being the YaY vs. MYM game.

Now as for the strat I have been thinking of, I think I may or may not be beat on for this, BUT as we have already identified, we have not adapted too well to the change in metagame (aggressive roaming + rune whoring).
SO what I am suggesting is, rather than sit somewhere in between farming and ganking (which we fail a lot at BECAUSE we are in between, and often we sit around sorta waiting to gank and sorta wanting to farm), we should perhaps take a leaf out of Fnatic.MSI's book and try to go toward a turtling build (obviously not as much as lycan/skele king/treant).

The idea I had was something like:
1 + 2 Dual Heal Turtlers e.g. LoA + Necro or Omni/Shadow Priest etc.
3. Defense/Gank Turtlers e.g. Bane or Rhasta (if we can even pick him anyways :S )
4. Late game Carry with laning ablity and ability to actually fight without 10k worth of items. e.g. Brood, Treant, Luna, OD, storm etc.
5. Roam/Ganker with Team fight ability e.g. Enigma, Puck, Tide

Viable heroes that dont really fit under just 1 category - Chen, Dirge, Death Proph, SK, DS, Panda (the drunk one), pitlord (prob some others but cant think of them off the top of my head)

Explanation of Strat:
I realise this may sound wierd due to having late gamers and "turtling" but give me a chance to explain. Basically the 1 + 2 part is the two heroes that allow us to "turtle." Ive gone away from the traditional pitlord and tried to go with some sort of heal or in LoA's case, ability to just not die. Basically we would require these two to ALWAYS ALWAYS have tps, have great map awareness and be able to notice as soon as a hero goes missing and make an accurate guess at where the enemy might be headed. As soon as a gank is incoming, they will have to tp to the required lane and keep that ganked lane alive. As far as Im concerned, if the enemy fails to gank, theyve lost a fair bit of exp and gold due to the time taken while waiting/travelling which is a plus for us. I was thinking LoA should tp around more than necro, so he can get a bit of solo lane time.

As for the 3rd, that slot is mostly quite flexible. You can put most heroes in there, but the ideal one being bane or rhasta. However, I think its important that rhasta's wards are used more defensively rather than pushing towers since, I think the turtling mindset should be: "Don't push us and we won't push you." The justification for bane is that, if they decide to push aggressively, bane can effectively make it 4v3 at least (since he himself is channeling). Also his "heal" also fits quite nicely with the fact that we have 2 other healers and just make it even more bitchy for them.

4th is the key to the strat: the late gamer. I was opting for a hero with the ability to lane solo while being to contribute to team fights, since I think thats where we have the most trouble. Hopefully the turtlers will keep this hero alive and if we get past the 40 min mark, we should be able to start turning the tables.

5th would be the team fighter/ganker who will hopefully keep the pressure on the enemy team enough to divert their attention from our carry. Once again this slot here should be flexible.


Now I know that was a lot to read, but thoughts?

Crypt
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Re: Metagame as it is now... and a strat I am thinking of...

Post  Stankey on Thu May 14, 2009 3:08 pm

well just in generaly ive noticed that it takes a lot of teamwork, organisation, co-ordination and agression to pull off a ks.int type gank strat which we tried and failed for ages at doing. I still watch replays all the time, because they dont take as long as games, and they give me my dota fix lol. I love watching long standing organised teams like mym etc, because they always make the game happen at their pace, and make the fights happen when they want them to, and they decide which tower is getting pushed, not defending towers pushed by the opposition. Basically they control the game, and if they come off bad in a team fight or two, the fact that they are controlling the game still ends up winning in most cases. Like they will push top, a bit, hide in jungle, have a teamfight loose 4 and they loose 3 heroes, but they will still get the tower. They also dont let that get them down, or let the pressure off, and they get their ass straight back into the oppositions jungle and cut off their farm.

But basically, until we play are playing regularly together, this isnt going to happen for us lol. So i have been thinking we do really need to have a decent carry hero. I was watching games, and specifically watching the heroes like pirate/luna/naix etc and seeing what effect they had on the outcome of teamfights and the game in general. And really it is huge. (note - naix geting banned/picked first again, often with a cm or a magic stick for mana support, same deal as pirate, people realised the nerf wasnt that huge).

But yeah we need to pick a carry, but still play agressive. WE NEED TO CONSTANTLY THINK ABOUT RUNES. Early kills revolve around runes so hard. Also ive noticed that if a rhasta is in the game, his lane ALWAYS towers first, it beat brood. I love the idea of a rhasta solo, because he can get lvl 6 and get a tower down so fast, then go straight to another lane and gank, and then down another tower after the 1min 40s cooldown.

EDIT: http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/replays/19717 that game kind of illustrates what im talking about. I think we would have a hard time beating the sentinel lineup with the scourge one (even though ks did - double roam gg), we wouldnt be agressive enough and organised enough to keep tinker/naix down and stop them from raping us later. I think the sent lineup is more suited to us, even though i like the scourge one better. (i also probly wud go someone else instead of zues for us, a stunner or jungler etc).

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Re: Metagame as it is now... and a strat I am thinking of...

Post  ssiterl on Thu May 14, 2009 9:46 pm

TBH most important thing is creeping skills (lh,deny) and being aggresive/defensive in ur lane
so basically line control is the most important thing b4 u even go into all these things..
and yea, rune is important as well.. as they can be very effective - ,-
mehhhhhhhhh
too many ass/test/exam fxxk arhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
mite come back on holidays, mite go to Australia with some frds though. not too sure...

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Re: Metagame as it is now... and a strat I am thinking of...

Post  Stankey on Thu May 14, 2009 10:57 pm

hard out, my gf's going to aussie in the holidays.

Yeah but when your even in lane control (like a lot of top teams) its the ganks that make and break the early game. I mean if your playing teams that easily out skill you in a lane, your probably going to loose anyway.

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Re: Metagame as it is now... and a strat I am thinking of...

Post  PIB on Fri May 15, 2009 11:53 am

ssiterl wrote:
mite come back on holidays, mite go to Australia with some frds though. not too sure...

Remeber they do have net cafes there bro if u feel the need to play....
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Re: Metagame as it is now... and a strat I am thinking of...

Post  Stankey on Fri May 15, 2009 12:49 pm

why would you go to australia and play dota... lol

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Re: Metagame as it is now... and a strat I am thinking of...

Post  Crypt on Fri May 15, 2009 4:34 pm

Stankey wrote:why would you go to australia and play dota... lol

lol. On the note of runes, I think its really important to get our asses out of the lane BEFORE the rune spawns since if you go at the time the rune will spawn, chances are enemy will have already taken it. Also taking it a bit further, maybe we could even rune camp if we see that they try to go for a rune every time to get in free kills Very Happy Of course we would have to watch out for enemy wards...

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