os|One wierd item builds

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os|One wierd item builds

Post  Crypt on Mon May 18, 2009 7:14 pm

For those of you who follow competitive dota, you might have noticed the somewhat "upsetting" defeats of ks^int and Ravens to 1dota and os|One. I was just watching a replay of Ravens vs. os|One, and noticed that Stalcat the ES in this particular game goes straight bottle start. In fact most of their team rush items (Sf rush BKB straight after bottle and shoes) and also Abaddon starting with no stat items either. Their potm also goes 1 tango, 1 salve and 4 branches and have Bane get chicken o.O

I just thought I would share this info with those who might give a crap about starting items Razz


....And now for something completely different.

Ex-MYM Loda has gone and created a new team called "the last try"
Roster:
Loda (Leader)
Kwom (Co-Leader)
Misery-
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Rene
Twisted

Some very famous names in there. Should be interesting.

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Re: os|One wierd item builds

Post  Stankey on Mon May 18, 2009 9:44 pm

yeah i did watch a few of those games. was kinda wierd. Didnt watch the es bottle first one, but i read it in comments and it sed he owned up. Also go the 2nd pick shadow fiend..... he got picked 3 times, different builds every time. and the skadi on SA. Lotsa shit changing up atm. Yeah and LoA solo vs potm/es..... dang, they banned LoA first later on Razz

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Re: os|One wierd item builds

Post  Crypt on Mon May 18, 2009 11:07 pm

lol yeah Maelk commented that they pretty much use the same heroes every time, so that makes them easy to read and predict in the future now they have replays to watch and analyse os|One's style of play.

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Re: os|One wierd item builds

Post  DR on Tue May 19, 2009 9:23 am

Well when you can rune whore Smile, bottle is hax. Also, it is always in best interest to rush items, but this relies on you doing well (reasonable farm not dying, or amazing farm and some dying Razz).

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Re: os|One wierd item builds

Post  Stankey on Tue May 19, 2009 4:37 pm

well you can argue the value of a bracer compared to the amount it could loose/gain you, but its always a could.

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Re: os|One wierd item builds

Post  DR on Tue May 19, 2009 5:24 pm

Well I like to think of it this way. Is it better that you get 3 wraiths (+ 300 gold) or get a dagger? dagger is clearly better (for position important heroes, eg sk, sf, etc.), the only question then is, how hard is it to farm up? Hence the decision to rush dagger or not depends on whether or not you have awesome/good farm.

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Re: os|One wierd item builds

Post  Genkidesuka on Tue May 19, 2009 9:53 pm

um, I think your maths is a bit off.

Wraith = 185 + 150 + 125 = 460 x 3 = 1380
Dagger = 2150

Maybe 3 Wraiths/Bottle/TP as compared to Dagger is more accurate. Normally I'd take the former, especially on SF who has massive survivability problems. Especially since SF farms like a beast and can farm up a dagger in 3-4 minutes anyway.

Depends on hero though. Of course I'd prefer Dagger over 3 Nulls/Bottle on, say, Enigma.

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Re: os|One wierd item builds

Post  Stankey on Tue May 19, 2009 10:23 pm

or es etc. On another note, sgty ripping up, to think we nearly played them. Thanks deja for refusing 2 play Razz, cuda been embaressing haha.

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Re: os|One wierd item builds

Post  DR on Wed May 20, 2009 9:38 am

Woooooo

O_o

I clearly need more sleep, fail math!

Bottle is a given for sf? I'm normally bottle -> dagger. Although if I have an absolute insane farm then dagger first for escapes Smile.

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Re: os|One wierd item builds

Post  Deja.Voo on Wed May 20, 2009 10:11 am

I don't like the original idea of comparing bottle to blink...totally different things in terms of cost and like cameron said then it comes down to hero choice and whatever. With regards to the first bit about going bottle first, its a really quite risky idea. Be interesting to see how many wards they had up early and also if ES was semi roaming cause then I believe its an ok idea. I much prefer going a rush bottle build like 3 branches and a flask or tangoes then just farm up bottle in a couple of minutes.

Also yes Sgty is going very well at the moment.
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Re: os|One wierd item builds

Post  Stankey on Wed May 20, 2009 11:27 am

its a bit of give and take with early bottle. Because that set of tangoes and clarity are basically wasted money, compared to having a refillable bottle, and if you can hit the 2min rune (easy with a ward overlooking one rune), probably only if you are mid lane, or if you are roaming.

Then all your really missing out on is the +3 all stats from branches, but if you have bottle first, and you havent wasted 300G on branches/tangoes/clarity then you can either farm boots in couple of mins, or that 300g can go towards getting you a couple of gauntlets/mantles or a circlet/tp. Here you miss out if your going to be going for kills at lvl or 2 (agressive lane), but if you are someone like potm you could almost argue for it, as your normally laned with someone else who will be taking the dmg (es/sk etc) and you can hang back, and topping up your mana/hp that you lost could be more important then having that extra +3 all stats from lvl 1.

blink isnt always a given with sf, from what ive seen of him being used A LOT in recent pro games, but i really think it should always be a core item. From watching the game where sf didnt get blink, but went skadi/HoD etc, he just really lacked that verocious killer aspect, as a bit of a juke and your free. But he was scarier when he right clicked you, and harder to kill.

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Re: os|One wierd item builds

Post  Genkidesuka on Wed May 20, 2009 12:09 pm

He's mainly used as a carry nowadays though, since fast-farming teamfight-winning beasts are all the rage. I still think Blink is great but it is slightly more expensive than, say, a HotD which could help you a lot more in terms of carry-ness.

The problem that I think a lot of people overlook is just how much Bottle actually regens for its 3 charges. 135 HP x3 = 405 HP - a little more than the 115 x3 HP provided by a simple pack of Tango's, and almost exactly the same as the 400 HP provided by a single Salve. The mana - 70 x 3 = 210 - just over two Clarities. So really, the regen it provides is pretty average in terms of initial cost. Yes, it is burst regen, but how important is that in the laning phase? If you have mana problems, go MAGIC STICK! YEEEEH BOI! And there's also the cost of zero stats early game which, depending on your hero, could really hurt. Sure, you can refill it, but that's quite luck based, especially for someone on one of the side lanes, not mentioning the xp/gold loss from leaving your lane. Arguably the gold loss you sustain could be equal to the initial regen cost...? Razz

Now I'm quite happy with KuroKy's strat of soloing mid and going 3 branches, with an optional pack of Tango's and rushing Bottle asap. But as a first item, when every team ever should have a chicken, I just don't like.

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Re: os|One wierd item builds

Post  Stankey on Wed May 20, 2009 12:32 pm

Clarities can be a pain, its nice just hitting a button and having the mana to stun or wateva, rather then waiting for ages. But they are necessary for some heroes early game, and i think they can be worth it (for es etc).

The thing about loosing exp/gold from leaving lane to get rune. You would loose more if you didnt get the rune, and the other team got it and killed you. Or if you get it, you get the advantage in your lane, and you can often push back the hero your facing and get some free farm for a while (or get a kill). Again, its not clear cut.

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Re: os|One wierd item builds

Post  Genkidesuka on Wed May 20, 2009 1:44 pm

I agree that Clarities are a pain, but that's why I suggested Magic Stick - A fully charged one is equivelant to 2 bottles worth of mana, which is pretty huge.

Also, true, if you get a rune you could potentially gain the advantage in your lane and get some much needed free farm, or a possible kill. But that relies on both a) getting the rune in the first place, and b) getting a rune you actually need, as opposed to, say, illusions or invis.

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Re: os|One wierd item builds

Post  DR on Wed May 20, 2009 3:33 pm

Illusions are always useful, invis, thats more dependent on your hero (but if your getting runes, you really shoudl have a stun or a nuke anyway).

Bottle shouldn't be thought of average regen, but as burst regen. Juke, bottle come out and kill something. If you grab every rune, then its average regen is 3.375 hp /sec and 1.75 mana/sec. Rune whores ideally shouldn't be the solo, although sometimes with a hero like sf, you can manipulate the waves through your razing so you don't miss out or if so, only 1 or 2.

blink isnt always a given with sf, from what ive seen of him being used A LOT in recent pro games, but i really think it should always be a core item. From watching the game where sf didnt get blink, but went skadi/HoD etc, he just really lacked that verocious killer aspect, as a bit of a juke and your free. But he was scarier when he right clicked you, and harder to kill.

SF is entirely based around aoe damage. Blink ult is pretty simple (when combined with stun), but its strength is the blink razes. Not to mention SF is fragile as anything, another good reason for blink. If you don't get blink, you really aren't abusing the hero as much as you should be.

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Re: os|One wierd item builds

Post  Crypt on Wed May 20, 2009 7:51 pm

Tbh I think blink is a nice item to get on SF but not neccessary to rush. I saw the os|One.R guy get a BKB first over a blink and he gets like Triple, triple kill during the teamfight. If he had gone blink, sure he could have blinked into the teamfight and attempt to ulti, but then probably get instagibbed in the process.

I think in terms of teamfight, BKB is much more useful in keeping him alive since, its not like theyre going to run away just because they see an SF (running away would usually result in 2-3 teammates being picked off while none of the enemy's heroes dying). However, underestimating SF and not retreating, they sustain a huge amount of aoe damage which I think is SF's true strength. After all, not many heroes out there that can dish out 900+ damage in 3 seconds at level 7 Razz

On the note of SGTY, indeed they are doing incredibly well in the F4F#10, recently beating dmZ 2:0 Oceania dota ftw!

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Re: os|One wierd item builds

Post  DR on Wed May 20, 2009 8:46 pm

Are you talkign about the
myR.ua vs th_kz.png Os|One

Game?

Because in the grand final Os|One had sf do their bkb and no blink.... slaughtered?

Also perhaps skill difference between myr.ua and ravens might be ... considerable Razz.

By the 900+ damage did you mean from ult or raze? in either case, it requires the enemy team to do a momentous fail of positioning to get hit by an sf who walks in >.> seriously...

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Re: os|One wierd item builds

Post  Crypt on Wed May 20, 2009 10:43 pm

Nah Im talking about Ravens vs. os|One game (same game from original post)

And Im talking about raze. Its easy to think that people wont walk into raze, however in the midst of confusion of teamfight, its quite difficult espeically when you're winning and all of a sudden the tide of the teamfight changes because of tps + well aimed razes.

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Re: os|One wierd item builds

Post  Stankey on Wed May 20, 2009 11:24 pm

yeah, i still think blink before bkb. Because blink + bkb is the most useful, but i think (alone) blink is more useful then bkb, hence blink -> bkb.

On another note i just got back from angels and demons. I can reccomend it, esp if you like puzzle/cryptic type movies. Has a good story line.

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Re: os|One wierd item builds

Post  PIB on Wed May 20, 2009 11:52 pm

Wow, something i notcied reading the last two pages, is that if you dont play sf then there is alot less thinking out side of the game lol.
btw congrats for not swearing as much as u guys usually do in threads, as for once i can access this during my break Smile
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Re: os|One wierd item builds

Post  DR on Thu May 21, 2009 5:45 am

Lol, it isn't me that normally swears.

But Os|One lost the grand final using SF against ravens!!! And got bkb against axe + lock!. I would agree that raze isn't easy to dodge in full combat but given how fragile he is, walking in to do the 2nd and 3rd raze would be a "little" crazy, unless your team has the advantage in battle at that point (walking in takes 3 seconds +, blink = 1 second). Also it isn't raze that is going to do the most damage (during 5 v5) it is his ult, at least for after lvl 11.

Btw you said razes + tps, then I'm guessing what happend is Ravens were on offense, and then sf tped in and then razewalked in while the teams were at it so Ravens were caught out? Thats fair enough, I tend to like the option of being more aggressive Razz.

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Re: os|One wierd item builds

Post  PIB on Thu May 21, 2009 6:21 am

How is it that ur up at 5:45 am ???
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Re: os|One wierd item builds

Post  Genkidesuka on Thu May 21, 2009 9:26 am

PIB wrote:Wow, something i notcied reading the last two pages, is that if you dont play sf then there is alot less thinking out side of the game lol.
btw congrats for not swearing as much as u guys usually do in threads, as for once i can access this during my break Smile

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT YOU FUCKING FUCK THERE'S NOTHING BUT MANLY FUCKING SWEARING IN THIS MOTHER FUCKER

ON TOPIC, BKB HELPS YOU NOT GET FUCKED INSTANTLY AS SOON AS YOU TRY TO BEND THE OTHER TEAM OVER AND FUCK THEM IN THE ASS. ITS LIKE PROTECTION. BLINK IS LIKE FLOWERS; IT HELPS YOU GET IN A POSITION TO FUCK THEM IN THE ASS. AND YOU WILL FUCK THEM IN THE ASS FOR A BIT. THAT IS, UNTIL YOU GET FUCKED OVER BY AIDS. OBVIOUSLY A COMBINATION OF THESE TWO IS IDEAL BUT WHICH YOU GET FIRST IS ENTIRELY FUCKING UP TO YOU. OF COURSE IF YOU CONTINUE TO FUCK WITH THE SAME CONDOM IT WILL EVENTUALLY WEAR OUT SO BEAR THAT IN MIND.

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Re: os|One wierd item builds

Post  Stankey on Thu May 21, 2009 12:12 pm

hence its protection wanes to 5s after a while. But theres no point having a condom unless your getting sex, but you can still do other things that wont get you aids by just giving a girl flowers. Then when you got the flowers + condom you can go for home base.

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Re: os|One wierd item builds

Post  Genkidesuka on Thu May 21, 2009 4:07 pm

Stankey wrote:hence its protection wanes to 5s after a while. But theres no point having a condom unless your getting sex, but you can still do other things that wont get you aids by just giving a girl flowers. Then when you got the flowers + condom you can go for home base.

FLOWERS ARE NOT REQUIRED IF YOU WANT TO BEND A BITCH OVER EITHER, IT JUST MAKES THE JOB EASIER

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