The "Counter" Game

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Re: The "Counter" Game

Post  DEATH.TO.ALL on Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:29 pm

QoP.
When he ultis she can blink, When he uses barrier she can SS and howl to take it off.
SS Slows him so hes slow. She has a high base damage so barrier can be useless. Ulti is just a massive nuke.

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Re: The "Counter" Game

Post  DR on Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:43 pm

I'm going to say sniper is not a great counter for pugna (cant mini stun while you are decrepified). low hp, and if you use assass or scatter netherward raises hell, but anyway.

Seriously, Storms spirit barrier means qop has nothing Razz. Storm spirit is a DPS hero, so he would win in a physical damage fight with qop, and at lvl 4 barrier blocks 600 damage, that is two fans! or 1 lvl 3 ulti!! (Discuss!)

But anyway against qop choose nerubian assassin. blink wont help if you dont know when he is coming. mana burn means qop has no mana, impale is a stun.

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Re: The "Counter" Game

Post  Stankey on Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:44 pm

I'm going to say sniper is not a great counter for pugna

I think sniper is a good counter, late game pugna relies on bein able 2 sit there life draning while the other 1 is attacking or running away. With sniper he will stun and stop the channeling, or if running can just turn and hit till it stops then carry on. And decrip doesnt last long enuf 2 kill a sniper. And if he had a lothars it would be good.

Storm spirit is a DPS hero, so he would win in a physical damage fight with qop

Winning and killing are two different things though, qop can escape from him and he cant escape from qop, so if you play your cards right you will win on kills/deaths vs him.

She has a high base damage so barrier can be useless

Yeah she has high base dmg but not more dps than storm, isnt qop a spell hero rather than a dmg hero, so barrier is kind of a tough obstacle for her?

doesnt ursa have furby written undernieth or was that jsut a random thought i had.

Um i think ursa used to be called furby but it got changed and i was dissapointed. Or me and u just used to call him furby when we cudnt think of his name lol.

wasnt sure if did affect range..

Yeah u know when your using him 2 tank creeps and the ranged creeps randomly die? yeah thats why lol.

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Re: The "Counter" Game

Post  DR on Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:56 pm

Ursa is fuzzy wuzzy?

Thing is, qop cant KILL storm spirit. Whereas if she hangs around, she loses. Magical barrier is like the equivalent of having another 26 str. Which is basically a reavers worth of hp. It is that onesided.

Also if we assume pugna and sniper are same skill level right... It is very easy for pugna to escape sniper, not easy for sniper to escape pugna. Sniper will rely on ministuns to stop pugna escaping. Decrepify gets him away. Also if sniper stays low hp, he gets slaughtered by pugna (netherblast, life drain, decrepify), if he doesn't, then he has low damage. But anyway, we'll have to leave that down to who has a better early game. So I'd say they are more evenly matched.

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Re: The "Counter" Game

Post  DEATH.TO.ALL on Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:19 pm

Qop vs Storm = Item battle. If QoP went damage, she will win. Also depends on the level.

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Re: The "Counter" Game

Post  DR on Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:32 pm

Well storm has a slightly higher base damage, he has better int gain (damage) and str gain. He is behind on agi by 0.5, but his ability electric rave makes up for it later. Her early game use of fan doesn't help her in the least (barrier). So it'll come out as skill early on (not really he has 50 more range, and with over power can do more damage in the light harassing, +5 base damage but anyway). If they both go damage, he'll have more attack speed, more hp and we'll say equal damage (not really). Unless storm is worse than qop by a fair bit in skill then he'll win out. Barrier and electric rave do so much for him. QoP might never die, but sure won't be able to kill him.

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Re: The "Counter" Game

Post  PIB on Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:52 am

hmmm sigh should of jsut picked a hero like troll with perm stun/twinheaded dragon with slow/fire +fire ulti to kill sniper.... but didnt want to waste the good characters inthis counter forum yet. But the good thing to see is how technical some people are getting into this, nice to read up on. So we are trying to counter nerubian assassin now i belive......
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Re: The "Counter" Game

Post  bjchance on Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:45 pm

Before I get on subject, I don't believe QoP can KILL SS. Remember to read my first post.

Counter to NA... Personaly I would go lich. Dark Ritual negates mana burn for the most of it and constant Nova's can really mess up NA.
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Re: The "Counter" Game

Post  Stankey on Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:28 pm

I don't believe QoP can KILL SS.

.... any hero can kill any hero. Or else dota would be stupid.

Dark Ritual negates mana burn for the most of it

You would just need something to get your hp back, if u keep filling up on mana ur giving him an opportunity to do more dmg. Unless you just spammed your nova straight away.

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Re: The "Counter" Game

Post  DR on Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:20 pm

Yeah I can get kinda pedantic about some things sorry :p. And NA was made to kill heroes like lich, so I dont' think that'd be a good counter, but is that the official counter? ^^"

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Re: The "Counter" Game

Post  PIB on Wed Apr 16, 2008 1:26 pm

If lich isnt the offical counter to na then i think i'd have to go with sa. Sa almost perm invis counters na's ulti to sneak gank, cloud would prevent any empale or mana burn and add miss chance, and could blinkstike in without having any problems. lvl 16 with (i think) 1.1 sec fade time does help to almost perm invis
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Re: The "Counter" Game

Post  bjchance on Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:12 pm

Lich will beat NA any day 1v1 IMO, but since y'all argue fine pick something else.
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Re: The "Counter" Game

Post  DEATH.TO.ALL on Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:52 pm

counter to SA - Gem/wards

Heros -.-...
Many but i will use Tree
Treant, High damage, High armour stops SA hurting him as much, Regen to heal after SA harrasses, Ulti keeps SA where he is and his team (if tree has anyone around) can help pound on him. EYES... WELL WHAT DO I NEED TO SAY? GG SA
If he gets radience even faster GG


(the above is based on tree being a good player who knows how to use eyes)

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Re: The "Counter" Game

Post  DR on Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:04 pm

Sorry bjchance, but when you have NA being used to pick off heroes like QoP, Zeus (low hp, nuker heroes), it just seems to jump logic at me Razz.

Against tree, I think I might suggest rhasta :O. Rhasta can either go for the wardtrap cyclone strat right off, or go for necromonicon. Rhasta has the disable to not die if attacked by tree, and with wardtrap and his other disables can kill. Admittedly if tree gets necromonicon he might be in a little trouble, but I think his ulti cd is faster, so all he has to do is wardtrap himself Smile.

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Re: The "Counter" Game

Post  DEATH.TO.ALL on Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:11 pm

Tree doesnt usually go for necro.

@rhasta, Lina. Ult CAN onehit him. Stun at distance which can also cancel the net if cast perfectly. Not much more to say really dragon can hurt him easy.

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Re: The "Counter" Game

Post  DR on Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:33 pm

Tree going necro isn't a terrible idea (I quite like it actually), but its just a different way to play him rather than trying to be a carry. Err.. you mean dagon on lina aye? Btw, I think rhastas first reaction would be to sheep rather than shackles, but heh, its a good counter, I like lina Smile. Against lina, Lion would be a good choice. His Impale or voodoo sets off before lina can do her stun, and then lion can just kill her with a couple whacks plus ulti. (Add in items and easily done).

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Re: The "Counter" Game

Post  DEATH.TO.ALL on Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:12 pm

Tree doesnt carry. Hes support. I wasnt saying its horrible for him just unusual.
And i mean dragon slave/salve (dunno which one)
BTW I dont like lion as a counter to lina, she can still get her stun off. There is a casting delay so if she casts, he casts, her stun can go off although its not channeling so its not as effective. Lion is decent counter though.

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Re: The "Counter" Game

Post  DR on Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:24 pm

O it is dragon slave and light array.
Thing is, with radiance it seems such a waste not to end up getting more AS to make use of the +65 damage, and down that road lies being a carry Razz. Those little demon things btw can cause absolute hell, so I figure necromonicon -> refresher means a great deal of pain and lots of mana burnt.

Thing is against lina, you need someone who can either disable her long enough to kill her, or someone who can tank it all with life to spare. Plus the whole having to be able to catch her (not sure where this is going mleh, was just wondering if N'aix would have been a good one, a bit iffy). I had a funny thought though. WHo the heck is KOTL going to counter? Razz.

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Re: The "Counter" Game

Post  DEATH.TO.ALL on Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:52 pm

Naix is alright but as soon as rage is CD then she can hit him with her spells.
KOTL in a pros hands can pwn anybody. But can be pwned by anybody also.

So we are countering Lion atm

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Re: The "Counter" Game

Post  DR on Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:03 pm

I bet KOTL couldn't pwn storm spirit, or omni knight! Which happen to conveniently been used.

Yes we are countering lion.

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Re: The "Counter" Game

Post  PIB on Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:48 pm

KOTL could counter techies, with his mana depletion spell and double ulti ( with the aid of scept), as soon as techies lays a mine, 80% mana is drained away, stopping any further mining or suicided possibly. his wave makes good harassing on techies early game
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Re: The "Counter" Game

Post  DR on Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:29 am

Ahahahahaha... I stand corrected :$.

Anyway we are countering, thingy lion aren't we? Crack to it people!

Hmm then we only need to find a hero that techies counters.... probably some poor melee hero Razz.

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Re: The "Counter" Game

Post  PIB on Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:20 pm

techies could counter like bh/clinks.. early game not much hp, clinks items dont really rely on getting hp, clinks doesnt have much armour and with all the ww running about, he bound to run into mines
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Re: The "Counter" Game

Post  DR on Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:42 pm

I think BH more than clinkz, clinkz just gets wards/gem and he wont die to mines Razz. BH can only stare at the mines ^^"

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Re: The "Counter" Game

Post  bjchance on Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:19 pm

ON TOPIC!!!!

Counter to lion...Viper. Natural Magic Reduction and constant harass = one fucked lion.

BTW Kotl does not counter TECHIES!!! Ult can't set off prox mines as the ult and its summons FLOAT! Image heros > Techies.
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